Hi
I've looked at last years discussion of OSS MIS systems but would welcome some further help.
I've been asked about a "free or low cost Windows SIMS that is computer based rather than web based." Probably for international use. Can anybody help, is anyone using one or could point me to someone else to talk to?
Thanks
Tricia
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Facetious aside: why would anyone want SIMS at any cost?
More productive answer: web-based does not preclude local installation on a Windows/Linux/Mac desktop.
This one is the most active I know of: http://www.schooltool.org/ and there are others.
Probably someone over on the SchoolForge MIAS list would know more about ongoing developments: http://groups.google.com/group/sf-uk-mias/ or have a look at the SchoolForge UK software section: http://schoolforge.org.uk/index.php/Directory-administration
International use would probably lead to a preference for a web-based system, unless someone envisages shipping the host machine backwards and forwards. I suspect in this context, international use refers to use somewhere in the rest of the world, rather as Europe, to the British, is usually somewhere else.
So presumably the system need no meet DfES requirements.
In the longer term, we are building MIS tools into the INGOT system (which is on-line). We can currently record assessment and issue ITQ (the new NVQ) certificates and P-scale assessment for special needs. That is being extended to the rest of the national curriculum, progress monitoring and report writing. We can add more management information facilities as time goes on and eventually cover everything SIMS and others do (Timetabling is probably the biggest and most complex thing to do). The rate we can develop these will depend as always on resources. The advantage of this approach is that it is achievable. The difficulty in producing a new MIS system (and many have tried) is the cost of marketing against an established monopoly. If we build up our customer base and they get used to the admin system for their qualifications and assessment they will be able to use other facilities in manageable chunks in parallel with existing systems. They can then make a decision at any time to switch but that is some way off as yet. Of course they will effectively get the MIS system hosted and managed for free because the development costs will be covered by the qualifications fees which will themselves be less expensive than any others with the same status. I am just in the process of putting more ITQ qualifications through the Ofqual process so for less than the cost of an ICT GCSE for a cohort a school can choose an Award, two different sized certificates a Diploma covering 0.5, 1, 2 or 3 GCSEs upgrading from a lower to a higher qualification by adding more units. SEN management of P scale progress, and soon certification of National Curriculum levels and report writing. Learners get blogs, e-portfolios and options to link their evidence to the assessment criteria on-line. All courtesy of Open Source Software
Belated thanks for the responses to my message. It gave me a somewhere to start and prompt discussion about what was really needed.
Tricia
We didn't have a release out when this question was asked but the MIS we have developed is "free or low cost" and compatible with Windows..although it is entirely web based (not sure why you would want to go any other way?) - scholarpack.com
Regards
Richard
I'm curious too as to why anyone would want an MIS to be desktop dependent? We order air tickets from the web, do our banking etc. Cloud is where it is all going. SIMS is locked to the desktop for historical reasons. If Sims was cloud based everyone would automatically have the most up to date version, you would be able to use any web browser on any computer to access it. With technologies like AJAX it would be very much the same experience as desktop. Access it simply from anywhere, build secure dynamic links to other web apps through open standards. Only make something desktop based if there really, really, really is no alternative.
One very sound reason for not running your MIS throught the cloud is that the school does not have the external bandwidth to guarantee consistent reliable connection to its MIS and all the other web-based processes it is trying to run at the same time. Despite the presence of very high uncontended bandwidths to many schools, particularly those in urban areas, there is a suspicion that in certain areas the broadband funding has been diverted to the deployment of inferior DSL technologies run at high levels of contention.
There are schools which are unable to get decent connect bandwidth over their EPS9 links, for which the specification is that it supports 56 kbps, though one may be forgiven for enquiring why they have been connected by an EPS9 link.
Hmm surely a more relevent question is what do you want from your MIS? Then from there you build a list of requirements.
We wanted web based access to content and flexible reporting of data. We examined the market and chose the best tool for our school. It uses a combination of web and desktop components. Only admins need to use the non web based components though.
It would be great if their was an open source tool that could provide ALL(timetabling,reporting, assessment etc) the functionality that our current MIS provides. It would need a LOT of time, effort and money to make that happen though.
Isn't there also a privacy issue here? Should this data be given away to random third parties to be stored in offshore data centres? I don't see how that is necessary or desirable.
MIS for a school isn't like online banking. There isn't a huge amount of data, or massive numbers of concurrent users, or unpredictable variation in demand. No need for a cloud. Surely a browser based MIS could run on a local server on an intranet. Let users VPN in if they need to access it from off site.
Why be so quick to give away your students' personal data to Google (or whoever else is offering you a free cloud)?
IanL speaks the truth and has it spot on.
Optymystic - your point about external bandwidth is not really an issue. We are largely dealing with small amount of text data here, not huge videos. Obviously this assumes a separation between the MIS and the VLE which may be more bandwidth intensive. For example, an 800 pupil school running for a year might generate 50-100mb worth of data, at least in the system we have developed - I can't speak for SIMS. That would include student/staff data, reporting, the usuals. To my mind, if a school doesn't have a fast enough internet connection to handle moving a little bit of text data each day I think they have bigger problems to worry about! Of course, by design, all cloud based solutions should be able to be hosted internally too - which would prove faster response times (but not noticeably). But this is a hassle for the school -why not give them an MIS login and abstract them from the finer details? Then can access their data whenever they like, they just don't have to maintain it.
MonkeyX - I don't like to blow my own trumpet but if you are interested in an open source alternative please check our system, I think you would find it does what you mentioned and a lot more. A lot of time, effort and money is an understatement!
mmcbride - A school should obviously have a choice to outsource their data. It may or may not be desirable for them to do that. I disagree with you though - a cloud is a perfect solution for an MIS. Letting using VPN in is (as I'm sure anyone who has ever had to use VPN for work purposes) often a nightmare and requires additional authentication methods etc. Why not let them access it on the web, from anywhere? Any legitimate MIS provider should be registered with the data controller and do everything properly.
Regards
Richard
We seem quite happy to give our bank details to be stored by off-shore third parties and probably a whole host of other personal info. The volume isn't the issue, its the principle that matters. The whole point about not running from a local server is that you reduce costs and you can concentrate security in one place. You don't have to give away personal data any more than you are giving it to Capita or anyone else you are dependent on in managing it. There are many more options than using Google or free clouds. Why should a learner give the school their personal data for that matter? If there is a concern about bandwidth, fix the bandwidth, have a dedicated separate connection if necessary. It's going to be a lot less expensive than managing umpteen different versions of the MIS software across many local servers. In the end water flows downhill which is why Open Source and cloud are expanding their reach. It's simple, its less expensive. People will generally vote with their feet for less expensive services if they are good enough for their needs as they see them.
I am not sure if I have misunderstood the thread, but it seems to cover two separate scenarios. One is the case of moving from a standalone desktop system to a browser based system. Here I would stand by my original comment - keep it behind a firewall unless you have a compelling reason to publish it. Just because you can make it accessible over the web doesn't mean you should.
The other scenario is a managed service. I take the point that this concentrates security in one place, but it also concentrates the data in one place. When 100,000 pupil records get hacked/left on a train people might wonder why the database existed in the first place. Isn't that one of the reasons they scrapped ContactPoint?